So there was a post a couple of hours ago, which basically summarised the changes Mythic are now planning based upon feedback in the thread I just linked you to.
Archmage
Isha’s Encouragement- Will add a Heal over time on a successful Cleansing Light use.
Boon of Hysh- 2s cast time. (reduction in fragility)
Disciple of Khaine
Persistent Rending- Becomes “Efficient Patching” and will now allow “Patch Wounds” to cleanse the group. Available at Dark Rites x11.Runepriest
Rune of Restoration- 2s cast time. (reduction in fragility)
Mountain Spirit- Duration reduced to 10s.
Swift Runes: Will now remove the cooldown on Rune of Cleansing, but increase the cost to 40 AP.Shaman
Bigger, Better, An’ Greener- 2s cast time. (reduction in fragility)
Git Outta Here!: Moves to level 35.
Ain’t Done Yet!: This will now increase healing effectiveness by 40% if your target is below 25% health.Warrior Priest
Cleansing Power: Moves to Salvation x11. (This is part of a larger move explained in a post later today or tomorrow morning.)Zealot
Endless Gifts: Will now remove the cooldown on Glimpse of Chaos, but increase the cost to 40 AP.
Elixir of Dark Blessings- 2s cast time. (reduction in fragility)
Eye of Sheerian- Now increases group armor and resists for 10s.
Now the swift runes (Endless Gift on the Zealot) is a RP tactic allows you to remove the cooldown on the cleanse, but at the cost of costing you more AP, in this case 40 AP. This was outlined initially in this post 3 days early by Steven Engle and expands upon the above, which was in response to dissatisfaction with the proposed cleanse changes, which I expressed my views on here.
As of right now, the cleanse change is slated to go to PTS and will most likely make it there.
Now I want to just spit-ball with all of you, what if we did something like this instead?
All cleanses remain 0s build time with a 5s cooldown.
We do tactic layouts as such that modify cleanse. (please remember I haven’t had time to run numbers, but want an idea of what you think conceptually.)
Archmage- tactic that adds a HoT on the defensive target (mirror Shaman version)
Runepriest/Zealot – Tactic that alters the cleanse to have no cooldown, but cost significantly more AP.
Disciple of Khaine- Tactic for Group cleanse (mirror of Warrior Priest’s Cleansing Power)
I think the changes on Cleanse being switchable via a tactic, are a nice solution. They make the choice yours as an RP or Zealot and I assume at the cost of just one mastery point to spec this tactic. Given the proposed change, I can see myself investing in it, to at least give myself the option.
Of course I’m still hurting over Mountain Spirit, which was a permanent fixture on my morale bar. Personally I find dropping it down from 30 seconds to 10 seconds, quite a significant cut.
Now who says Mythic don’t listen (Sometimes). I will also say that some players still wouldn’t be happy even they were given a lifetime subscription. Maybe it’s just in our human nature to be whiney bitches?
Swift Runes is currently baseline and there’s no mention of making it speccable. I can’t say I’m happy with this, tactic slots are hard to come by and I doubt many RPs/Zealots can fit this new tactic into their existing ones, thus the change will become largely irrelevant.
Also the AM change is hardly anything. Currently the target gets an absorb shield on a successful cleanse. A HoT that scales with willpower is somewhat better, but still only a drop into the ocean.
The shaman one is quite significant though, they’ve been asking for something like this for quite some time.
The significant changes they wanted to make changed from a disaster to a largely unimporant fix. Bleh.
Heh, messed up. It seems both cleanses have been changed to bubbles recently. Also need to l2read. A tactic change for AMs. Complete crap.
Blaq, I don’t agree. If you are fulfulling a role of cleaner in a WB, then you will merely swap to another tactic bar and add in swift runes. While you are doing that, your healing is going to be the lesser role anyway.
So really don’t see the problem.
I can’t see cleansing as a viable role in large scale play. It’s just not feasible to single target cleanse. If WPs had access to AoE cleansing without a cooldown then maybe (but that would be OP anyway).
The cleansing change only affects the dynamic of small scale RvR. Cleansing is FUBAR in large scale fights unless it’s AoE. Which is why I was referring to small scale, where a healer won’t be able to sacrifice a tactic slot for cleansing, unlike in a warband where you have a lot more lee-way.
To increase the viability of healers other than WP/DoK in large-scale play their AoE heals must become much much less fragile (2 sec is way too much). Having a bigger value and scaling on AoE heals is ok, but as long as they take forever and a bit to cast and are easily interruptable they won’t be viable. Any kind of single target healing is bound to fail when facing the amount of AoE damage dps careers can pump out (and morale dumps). Those are the only changes that will make other healers viable. Why can’t Mythic see that.
I think this change to the cleanse + tactic is an improvement, over what was proposed before. It’s a step forwatd.
I appreciate what you are saying, but isn’t that what we have SM’s for, doesn’t one of the healer classes get a cleanse which does the whole group?
In my opinion the improvement is too small to be really noticable. The gap between WP/DoK and the rest of the healers is still huge. Consider the melee healers ability to AoE heal and heal under pressure, coupled with far superior cleansing (should they choose to). An idea is for the tactics to change the healer’s cleanse into an aoe, maybe make it speccable and remove it from WP/DoK, they are powerful enough without it.
And I don’t understand how SM Whispering Wind synergy with WP Cleansing Power has anything to do with the change to single target cleanses? AM/RP/Zealot/Shaman are perhaps most viable in small-scale, but still behind WP/DoK in viability (you’ll always want a solid AoE healer in a group, RP/AMs are not solid AoE healers).
Are you saying that the situation is fine because AM/etc. are small-scale healers while WP/DoKs are viable at both small-scale and large-scale?
Not trying to argue here, just trying to understand your exact meaning. I’m a bit thick-headed sometimes.
Well I think the cleanse change being a tactic are a good change considering the backlash tbh, making it a choice is a good call and personally I’ll probable take it on my Zealot for running in a guild group where I focusing on a smaller number of people rather then randomly chucking out cleanse at random when ever I’m it’s off CD
I’m not 100% familiar with the intricasies of AM heailng, but as someone who has cursed the Shaman’s HoT-on-cleanse many times while playing my SW, is that a significant boon for the AM?
The single heal, well that 2 seconds, so still an age. The HoT, well I suppose it depends on the numbers.
If it’s similar to the Shaman’s Green Cleanin’, careers with Ailments (SH) / Hexes (Magi) will be hating AMs even more.
@Shadow: The situation is a bit different on the order side of things, with both archetype mirrors using different types of debuffs and archetype mirror healers using different cleanses compared to their destro counterparts.
So the order healer cleanses are as follows: WPs hexes and curses, RPs curses and ailments, AMs hexes and ailments.
@Blarq
AMs do Ailments and Hexes (which are highly used by SHs and Magi as I said).
Shamans do Ailments and Ailments and Curses (which are highly used by SWs and hell, nothing uses curses as far as I can tell).
Seems like cleansing of curse is more of a problem than anything else, as there seem to be very few curses coming from the order side of the fence. Fix that discrepency (by making more DPS abilities as curses or changing the cleanse for the shaman to be ail/hex), and it’s a wash.
I’ll say this though: shaman w/ green’ cleanin’ are the complete and utter bane of my SW.
Heh, sorry for the jumping the gun on ya Skar!
As a Zealot, I think I’ll swap in the tactic situationally if it’s a baseline tactic… (sorry, can’t remember Endless Gifts because I don’t think I’ve ever slotted it.. probably means it’s useless…)
It’ll be nice to insta-cleanse someone of, say, two Boiling Bloods (which HURT).
However, it WILL be rough giving up a tactic slot for it… I’m not sure what I’ll swap out. We shall see, I suppose. But, I like that I have to make the choice. Should be good!
@Blaq,
Don’t worry about my comment, it was a bit mixed up.
However I agree that the RP is still not up there with the WP, the single target heal is just not viable even with the reduction in cast, beyond PvE.